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THE BOATING REPORT

THE BOATING REPORT; In the Real Storm, the Skipper, the Crew and the Boat All Survived

By Herb McCormick

  • Aug. 6, 2000

About midway through ''The Perfect Storm,'' the film adaptation of Sebastian Junger's phenomenal best-seller, the skipper of the 32-foot sailboat Mistral, sporting a jaunty yachtsman's cap and a highbrow New England accent, makes an offhand remark about his vast offshore prowess. It's a setup line. He's silly, smug and about to get walloped.

As readers of the book know, the character is based on Ray Leonard, the skipper of Satori, a Westsail 32 that was abandoned by its crew in a North Atlantic gale during a United States Coast Guard rescue operation in the fall of 1991. Portrayed by Junger as a strange introvert with a fondness for the bottle, Leonard has now been skewered both in print and by Hollywood.

With each subsequent retelling of his story, the lines that define who Leonard is and what happened during that terrible, perfect storm become more blurred. In fact, Leonard is a retired research ecologist for the United States Forest Service, a former college administrator and an accomplished long-distance voyager with a Coast Guard license and tens of thousands of miles under his keel, and he does not fall within the neat, nasty boundaries of his depictions.

''I haven't seen the movie and I probably won't until I can borrow a copy of the video,'' Leonard said last week from the small home he is building for himself in western Vermont. ''But as for hats, I just wear a ball cap at sea. It keeps the sun out of my eyes.''

Junger, who did not speak to Leonard for his book, did not return a phone call seeking comment for this column. But in a 1997 interview about Leonard in The New York Observer, Junger said, ''He didn't sound like the kind of guy I wanted to talk to.''

That's a shame, because Junger, whose book focuses on the loss of the fishing vessel Andrea Gail and includes vivid writing about meteorology, long-line fishing and Coast Guard heroics, missed a grand opportunity to capture the passion of a long-distance sailor.

Leonard, 72, bought his Westsail in 1974, the same year the rugged little double-ended yacht was featured on the cover of Time as the perfect vessel for folks ready to chuck it all and head for the South Seas.

''Satori is the Buddhist word for enlightenment,'' Leonard said. ''I was at the midpoint of my career, and the boat gave me new insight into myself. Whenever I got into a bad fix with her, she always did better than I thought she would. She was very well named for me.''

From 1974 to '91, Leonard sailed Satori hard and often, mostly alone. The boat was well equipped with designated storm sails, and Leonard had plenty of chance to use them in roughly 60,000 miles of sailing. Divorced in 1985, he moved aboard Satori the same year. In October 1991, accompanied by Karen Stimson and Susan Bylander, two women he had spent the summer working with, Leonard and Satori set out from New Hampshire bound for Bermuda.

By all accounts, the voyage was a nightmare. Several days into the trip, after receiving a Mayday call relayed by a commercial vessel, a Coast Guard helicopter plucked Satori's crew from a roiled sea. While that fact is indisputable, the events leading up to the rescue remain unclear; there are two very different versions of Satori's fateful passage.

In Junger's book, which is based largely on interviews with Stimson, the sailors survive through the initiative of the women, who are forced to take action when Leonard, ''sullen and silent, sneaking gulps off a whiskey bottle,'' refuses to do so. In what he describes as 30-foot seas, Junger wrote that Satori was ''starting to lose the battle to stay afloat.''

Leonard, however, dismisses much of Junger's account. ''I'd guess the seas were 15 to 18 feet, tops,'' he said. ''Satori had been in much worse. It was a very uncomfortable ride, but the boat was sound and we weren't taking on water, except for a few gallons that came through the hatch. And the drinking bit is just totally untrue.''

Leonard was employing standard tactics for weathering extreme conditions: he had battened Satori down and was content to wait things out. ''You never head towards shore in a heavy storm,'' he said. ''It's too dangerous. And the weather forecast said a hurricane was heading towards Bermuda, so it didn't make sense to keep going that way.''

Leonard said he did not authorize a Mayday call, though he did give the women permission to radio the Coast Guard to update Satori's position. And when the chopper did arrive, he considered staying aboard Satori. Ultimately, when he was ordered to leave, he complied.

''When I knew the crew would have to jump in the water, I wasn't comfortable about having them go alone,'' he said. ''Also, I knew if I disobeyed I wouldn't be able to land in a U.S. port for several years, and I've seen expatriates in foreign ports. I didn't want to be one.''

Stimson, who was on vacation from her job in Maine last week, was unavailable for comment. Interestingly, according to a friend of hers, Stimson now owns a Westsail 32.

What transpired after the rescue supports Leonard's contention that Satori was still seaworthy when her crew leapt off her transom. Several days later, the boat washed up on a Maryland beach. A bag of personal items that Leonard had mistakenly dropped when he left Satori was still on the afterdeck.

''A park ranger found my phone number in it,'' Leonard said. ''He called me up and said come get your boat. It was fine. I went down and had her hauled off, cleaned her up, then sailed her to Florida.''

Leonard continued to sail Satori until this spring, when he sold the boat to a Texas couple. As for the fallout from Junger's book, which Leonard has read, he said: ''People who don't know me who've read it have preconceived notions. I've only had one boat delivery job, and I used to get plenty. I'm not bitter, but I don't think the book or movie explained what sailing's all about. Bluewater sailors are sharp, self-reliant, and proud.''

And while Leonard no longer owns Satori, he is still drawn to the sea. Earlier this year, fulfilling a lifelong dream, he went to Alaska in search of the same work that took the lives of the crew of the Andrea Gail. Once there, he signed on aboard a salmon trawler. Of all things, the sailor became a fisherman.

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  • Sailboat Guide

Mistral 16 is a 16 ′ 0 ″ / 4.9 m monohull sailboat built by Canadian Yacht Builders (CAN) starting in 1980.

Rig and Sails

Auxilary power, accomodations, calculations.

The theoretical maximum speed that a displacement hull can move efficiently through the water is determined by it's waterline length and displacement. It may be unable to reach this speed if the boat is underpowered or heavily loaded, though it may exceed this speed given enough power. Read more.

Classic hull speed formula:

Hull Speed = 1.34 x √LWL

Max Speed/Length ratio = 8.26 ÷ Displacement/Length ratio .311 Hull Speed = Max Speed/Length ratio x √LWL

Sail Area / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the power of the sails relative to the weight of the boat. The higher the number, the higher the performance, but the harder the boat will be to handle. This ratio is a "non-dimensional" value that facilitates comparisons between boats of different types and sizes. Read more.

SA/D = SA ÷ (D ÷ 64) 2/3

  • SA : Sail area in square feet, derived by adding the mainsail area to 100% of the foretriangle area (the lateral area above the deck between the mast and the forestay).
  • D : Displacement in pounds.

Ballast / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the stability of a boat's hull that suggests how well a monohull will stand up to its sails. The ballast displacement ratio indicates how much of the weight of a boat is placed for maximum stability against capsizing and is an indicator of stiffness and resistance to capsize.

Ballast / Displacement * 100

Displacement / Length Ratio

A measure of the weight of the boat relative to it's length at the waterline. The higher a boat’s D/L ratio, the more easily it will carry a load and the more comfortable its motion will be. The lower a boat's ratio is, the less power it takes to drive the boat to its nominal hull speed or beyond. Read more.

D/L = (D ÷ 2240) ÷ (0.01 x LWL)³

  • D: Displacement of the boat in pounds.
  • LWL: Waterline length in feet

Comfort Ratio

This ratio assess how quickly and abruptly a boat’s hull reacts to waves in a significant seaway, these being the elements of a boat’s motion most likely to cause seasickness. Read more.

Comfort ratio = D ÷ (.65 x (.7 LWL + .3 LOA) x Beam 1.33 )

  • D: Displacement of the boat in pounds
  • LOA: Length overall in feet
  • Beam: Width of boat at the widest point in feet

Capsize Screening Formula

This formula attempts to indicate whether a given boat might be too wide and light to readily right itself after being overturned in extreme conditions. Read more.

CSV = Beam ÷ ³√(D / 64)

Open dinghy and cuddy/cabin versions. The hull design is thought to be based on the WAYFARER Dinghy (Ian Proctor - 1959). Thought to be the same or similar to CL 16, also built in Canada.

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Mistral 12 Sailing at Somers Point, NJ (YouTube video) I bought this 12-foot Dinghy on Craigslist. The seller said that the boat would be sold to the highest bidder by Tuesday.  It was Saturday and we were leaving for a week's vacation, so I asked my brother to offer $400. The boat was like new, on a galvanized trailer and had a small electric trolling motor and other extras, so I really didn't expect to get it. The photos say the rest.

The boat was manufactured in 1982 by canadian yacht builders, quebec. you would never guess by this wierd hin, i fell in love with the mistral 12 and decided to keep it for myself, but only sailed it four times in as many years i recently celebrated my 82th birthday and it's time to let someone else enjoy the boat., selling boat and trailer for $1,799, i entered the mistral and our two roadmaster "woodies" in two parades and harvested lots of applause, the swiss company, mistral, is well-known in europe. in the eighties, mistral was #1 in windsurfer competition. the canadian branch of mistral built a number of high quality sailboat models. mistral still has subsidiaries around the world that make windsurfers, paddleboards, sportswear, bags & attachments, sunglasses and even cosmetics below are pictures of other mistral sailboats., mistral 16 the mistral 16 was most popular (next four photos) some of the 16' mistrals were fitted with a small cabin download a pdf of the mistral 16 manual (2.7 mb), mistral 4.04 (13' 3"), download a pdf of the mistral 4.04 manual (1.7 mb), below: mistral windsurfer, mistral 4.07 (13' 4") in the center and a mistral 4.04 (13' 3") mistral 4.07  .

Classic Sailboats

L F. Herreshoff MISTRAL

Herreshoff “Mistral” Specifications

LOA: 75′ 0″ * LOD: 63′ 6″ * LWL: 54′ 9″ * Beam: 15′ 0″ * Draft: 6′ 3″ * Ballast: * Displacement: Sail Area: 1,972 * Design Number: 73 * Yard Number: * Hull material: Yellow pitch pine on oak ribs covered with 3 layers of sipo mahogany * Rig: Schooner * Designer: L.F. Herreshoff * Built by: Britt Brothers, West Lynn, MA * Year Built: 1937 * Restored By: 2006 to 2008 in the shipyard of M. Paulsen in Arnis at the river Schlei, Germany * Current Name: Mistral * Original Owner Theodore W. Little * Current Owner: Dieter Krügel * Sail Number: GER 73

Known Racing History: ?

Historical:

During the war MISTRAL was used by the US Coast Guard: As a yacht she moved around noiselessly and was used to patrol for U-Boats. Years later she even wrote US naval history: She was the first training ship of the US Navy to sail across the Atlantic under the command of a female captain to participate in the coronation ceremony of Queen Elizabeth II.

Mistral is considered to be a refined updated version of “Joann” with a finer entry and clipper bow. Her easier to handle Marconi mainsail is less traditional and attractive than her counterpoint. A very fast comfortable boat at sea

mistral 15 sailboat

Photo Credit: Kai Kreisler – Website

Related posts:

  • L. Francis Herreshoff “Tioga II”
  • L.F. Herreshoff “Rozinante”
  • L F. Herreshoff “Cat Yawl”
  • L F. Herreshoff “Dulcinea”

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★ ★ ★ ★ ★ 4.8 of 5 average, pre-memorial day trip, by dothan al, ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ 5 of 5, response from benchmark management.

Mark, we are so happy to hear that you enjoyed your stay with us at Mistral. We do our best to maintain these properties and to provide our guests with a lovely beach vacation experience as such we truly appreciate this feedback. We hope we can welcome you to stay with us again for another amazing beach vacation experience. Thanks again for choosing to stay with us! Regards, Benchmark Management

Submitted on May 30, 2023

Great location, poor couch and screen door

By nashville tn, ★ ★ ★ ★ ☆ 4 of 5.

Great location steps from the beach. Is dated, but serves its purpose. The couch is terrible to sit on, and the sliding(if you could call it that) door made brought the whole experience down.

Hi there, thanks for staying with us at Mistral. We are so delighted to hear that you found the location great! On the other hand, we are so sorry to hear that you did not find the couch comfortable. It is always quite a task to find furniture for vacation rentals as each person has their preference. We have however taken your comment into account and will pass this on to the proper parties! Please note that guest satisfaction is our priority! Please also note that our maintenance team has resolved the issue with the sliding door as such this should not be an issue for future stays. We truly apologize for the inconvenience this caused during your stay. We hope we can welcome you again soon for a much better vacation experience. Regards, Benchmark Management

Submitted on May 14, 2023

Great Spot!

By alpharetta ga.

Everything was clean and in order. Plenty of towels, etc.

Mark, Thank you for sharing your 5-star review with us! We are glad you had a great time and the home was just as expected. Your satisfaction means a lot to us and we couldn't have asked for a better response! Benchmark Management!

Submitted on Apr 10, 2023

Beautiful Beach view

By fayetteville ga.

This 2nd floor walk up rental had everything we needed except our groceries & clothing. The balcony overlooks the Gulf with a white sandy private beach area. There are quite a few steps down to the beach but there are handrails & landings for those who need a rest spot. The king bed is comfy & we slept well. Plenty of linens. There are basic kitchen supplies so take your own spices, etc. but there were dishwasher & laundry pods available. Our favorite part - morning coffee on the balcony enjoying the surf.

Mark and Barb, We are thrilled to hear you had a wonderful vacation! We are glad you were able to enjoy the beautiful gulf views this property provides. We truly hope our guest have a memorable 5-star vacation while staying with us at Benchmark Management, and we are happy to see we did just that for you. We hope you consider staying with us again at Benchmark Management, we would be honored to have you. Sincerely, Benchmark Management

Submitted on Apr 21, 2022

Excellent Accomodations

By mt juliet tn.

Pictures match actual experience. 2 miles from shops and restaurants was a perfect daily walk. Easy to and from beach. Air Conditioner worked well. Cable TV allowed me to watch March Madness! Shower was nice and large too!

Samuel, thank you for sharing your 5-star review with us! We are glad you had a great time and the home was just as expected. Your satisfaction means a lot to us and we couldn't have asked for a better response. We're only a phone call away when you need us! Sincerely, Benchmark Management!

Submitted on Mar 31, 2022

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clock This article was published more than  23 years ago

Reality Gets the Heave-Ho In Not-So-Perfect 'Storm'

Movie flubs sailors' true reactions to a gale.

"The Perfect Storm" is one ripper of a movie, but it promises to do for boats what "Jaws" did for sharks.

For all its pulse-pounding special effects, and the real circumstances it purports to reenact, it feeds on the public misperception about what life is like at sea, and how people behave there under the stress of forces men have met and mastered since the first ship sailed.

Fine a film as it is, there are perfectly ridiculous scenes in "The Perfect Storm," scenes almost as far-fetched as the nuttier maritime aspects of "Titanic." In perhaps the most egregious, a fisherman accidentally goes overboard at night in the North Atlantic. Two shipmates with neither life jackets nor safety lines promptly dive in after him. They not only locate him (seeing just fine in all that dark salt water, thank you) but surface with him close to the boat despite their long swim, and are easily hauled back aboard.

"Of course, that would never happen," says Linda Greenlaw, the real-life swordfish boat captain handsomely portrayed in the movie by actress Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio. As Greenlaw points out, perhaps the most unnerving thing about being on the water is how instantly any person or object overboard is lost to sight in the heaving seascape, even in the daytime. "You'd throw him cushions, life preservers, anything to help him stay afloat and be visible. But you need every single person on the boat to help locate him and bring him aboard. Any would-be rescuer overboard is just one more speck in the ocean. At night? Forget it."

Greenlaw's character would seem to be comparably far-fetched--a sort of muscular Demi Moore prototype hoked up by Tinseltown.

In fact she is very much for real, a well-known, experienced and highly competent fishing boat captain who makes her way in a very male world with disarming grace and candor. Her own book, "The Hungry Ocean," is high on the bestseller lists.

Greenlaw loves "The Perfect Storm," but said in a telephone interview that the distortions in the film are pretty obvious to anyone who has spent time at sea.

No one even goes on deck in a Force 12 storm, much less climbs out on a flailing outrigger boom with a metal-cutting torch, as in the film. No one could.

"And how does he keep the torch lit in all that wind and rain?" she wonders. "I can't keep one lit even when it's calm."

No one climbs atop a cabin in a hurricane, either, especially to replace something as extraneous as a radio antenna. "I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't let a crewman of mine do it. . . . You can't even look into that kind of wind, much less climb around in it."

But the business with the antenna feeds into the mentality of a modern public conditioned to dial 911 when things get edgy. Offshore, that's not much of an option, though the movie encourages us to think it is.

"We're back in the 19th century!" a crewman of the ill-fated fishing boat Andrea Gail screams in horror when the radio and the weather fax go out.

But at sea only fools assume they're really anywhere else.

"Expect rescue? Fifteen hundred miles off the Grand Banks? Good luck!" says Greenlaw. Fishermen may talk constantly by radio and occasionally get plucked from disaster by a helicopter, "but you never count on that. At sea you always assume you're alone."

It is that very self-reliance that defines the real courage of the Gloucester fishermen, she says, as well as that of any capable skipper who puts to sea.

For example, in the film, a sailing yacht named Mistral gets caught in the storm while en route to Bermuda. It hasn't even reduced its sail area to a storm jib, but never mind. Two crew members keep yelling at the owner to put into Watch Hill, R.I., but he says it's safer to keep going. Eventually the two women, nearly hysterical, grab the radio and call a Mayday. All three eventually are lifted off by Coast Guard helicopter and the audience thinks: Those women were sensible and that boat owner was a fool.

In fact, the owner was right. Every rule of ocean sailing says stay offshore where you can't hit anything, and stay with the vessel until it sinks out from under you. Your chance of survival is almost always greater with your boat than in the perilous process of offshore rescue.

The Mistral in the film is a stand-in for the real-life Bermuda-bound boat, a 32-foot Westsail cutter named Satori owned by a highly experienced sailor named Ray Leonard. Though nicknamed "Wet Snails" for their stodgy performance, Westsails are extremely seaworthy vessels, designed to survive in the heaviest of seas. Satori had already weathered one hurricane in her 17-year-life. The film implies that the Mistral/Satori was lost in the storm. Not so. Two weeks after the real-life Andrea Gail went down, the abandoned Satori beached herself on Assateague Island. Her storm jib wasn't even ripped. There was hardly a scratch on her.

Perhaps the most difficult aspect of storms at sea to convey to those who have never been through one is the extent to which the human mind and body actually grow accustomed to extreme conditions--conditions beyond anything one could imagine.

There's rarely any of the running around and screaming endemic to Hollywood disaster films. For one thing, storms at sea normally grow gradually, taking hours if not days to reach their most dangerous state, and permitting, to some extent, gradual acclimation. In such conditions, fear surfaces not as manic emotional confrontations but as increasing dread and withdrawal.

"You don't want to think very far ahead. In fact, you can't," says John Swain of Galesville, Md., whose 36-foot sloop was flung ashore like a crushed beer can by monster rogue waves off the famously stormy east coast of his native South Africa. "That's a very naughty coast. The charts tell you to expect 60-foot waves, and entire tankers, quite literally, have been known to vanish there without a trace. You're very busy taking each wave one at a time there, and when you're off watch you're so exhausted you're below in your bunk unconscious."

"Everyone just got very, very quiet," remembers British writer Diana Preston, who once weathered four days of 100-knot winds and "absolutely tremendous" seas aboard a small Russian research vessel in the notorious Southern Ocean off Antarctica. "Everyone was sick, of course, and the crew was very, very busy. But the other passengers just retired to their cabins and got quietly drunk. No one spoke for days."

Greenlaw says she's never seen panic at sea in her 20 years of commercial fishing, no matter how bad the weather gets. "And it gets scary. . . . Of course, you're scared. You know what everyone's thinking. They're praying. And they're wondering if the next wave is going to eat you alive. But the most you'll ever see in the way of reaction is maybe a knowing look and a raised eyebrow."

The lack of quietly raised eyebrows in "The Perfect Storm" is just one of the aspects of the film Greenlaw can find fault with--if pressed. She was 600 miles east of the Andrea Gail when that boat went down, not west as the movie has it. And she did hear the Andrea Gail's last radio transmission, but never called a Mayday. "Nobody ever called a Mayday for them," she says. "They never indicated they were in trouble. They just never came back."

But for all those cinematic inaccuracies--and dramatic license--Greenlaw says, there's an overall integrity about "The Perfect Storm" that she fiercely applauds.

It's not just her own portrayal, she says ("What woman wouldn't be thrilled to be portrayed like that? . . . Now I have to live up to it"); it's what the film says about commercial fishermen, and about their families and about the prices and rewards of living with the sea.

"They told me they intended to make the film as a tribute to all the Gloucester fishermen that have ever gone to sea, and I think they've done that. It really does tell people about that way of life. Maybe it will help more people ashore understand."

As for the film's special effects and the monster waves, "They terrified me and I've seen a lot of weather." In fact, she says--and here's a thought--the perfect storm of 1991 was not the worst she's seen at sea.

"Once I was aboard a boat when things were so bad the captain spent 72 hours at the wheel nonstop, without even a bathroom break. And after all that time beating against the storm and the wind and waves, we found we'd traveled 100 miles backwards."

mistral 15 sailboat

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Mistral 16'

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Hi, I just bought a 1982 Mistral 16' sailboat but don't have the owner's manual and don't know how to rig it - does anyone have any tips, thoughts or an owner's manual??? Thanks! Cheryl  

Thats awesome, congrats on the new boat. Im going to look at a Mistral 16 on Tuesday. here is a link on rigging a Wayfarer which is very similar (almost the same boat) Caution Water - Sailing - Wayfarer Rigging Guide What kind of condition is your boat, and if you dont mind what did you pay, only so I have an idea of what they are going for.  

Thanks for the link! The one I bought is in pretty good condition - it must have hit a dock or another boat on the starboard side - and they did a really bad job patching the fiberglass - it's not that big of a "hole/dent" - I am going to attempt to fix it properly - that is basically the only flaw, however, it was raining so hard today I could not really go outside and make sure all the hardware is there and in good shape - I bought the boat at a non-profit boat auction so the boats are sold "as is" and the owners aren't usually there - the boats are donated - so there really isn't anyone to ask about the boats - so I paid $325 and it included the trailer - but who knows what I will be looking at once the rain here stops and I try to rig it - I think $700 - $1200 is an average price if you are buying from the actual owner. Mine did include the jib and main sails and they look pretty good - I think the battens are missing though, unless I find them in the boat. Good luck with your boat - and if you come across an owners manual I would love it if you could scan it and email to me!  

That's an amazing price, hopfully everything is there for you so you don't have to round up parts and pieces. If I come across an owners Manuel Ill be sure to pass it along, although I've never found them to be that useful they are a good place to start. Good luck with your boat.  

Have you gotten a better look at your new boat yet? I found from someone else that this is a good place for parts C&L Boatworks The cl 16 is another similar boat with a good following. Check out the forum on the CL16 page, some great info there.  

I just started a facebook group page called "Mistral 16 sailors" I thought that since there are only a few of us that own this rare boat it would make it easier for us to get info from one another. Hope to see you there.  

OK, here are the documents that I have:  

Attachments

Sailing Sail Sailboat Vehicle Boat

Bob, I bought a mistral 16 without the cabin. any chance you still have that pdf? looking for info on how to rig the spinnaker. Thanks,  

I've got a 1982 Mistral 16 open cockpit style. I've converted it from end sheeting to centre sheeting. Makes life easier when single handing. Luv my boat. Weak spot on these boats is the cockpit sole around the bailer. I had to replace my bailer and re-inforce the sole becasue of cracking. A few layers of fibre glass and west system epoxy and it was good as new. I had a sail loft install to sets of reefing points in my main. Now I use jiffy reefing - faster and safer than trying to roll it up  

Good luck on your sailing endeavors, Cheryl.  

Hi Cheryl and others, I just joined Sailnet after perusing the site for years. I have a Mistral 16 open cockpit. Right now it's in my IN Box, under a tarp. Like Cheryl, I got mine for around that price and it included the trailer, sails and so on. I bought it because of the double chined hull and the mast looked like it would (pivot) and be somewhat easy to step. One of the main things that's keeping it out of the water (aside from being busy) is that the rivets holding the spreaders to the mast pulled out. I'm going to have to research that "repair" and see if I can fix it myself or pay money I don't have right now to a rigging place. I have other boats, and one is a CL 14 -- like a smaller CL 16 or Mistral. I love it. There is a Google Group, "Mistral Sailing" but it is not particularly active. LeRoy is the manager of that forum. There are not too many Mistral 16 s around, but it is a nice solid boat. What RailSailor said about the cockpit floor. Mine has some stress cracks. Bailer in good shape. I got a "deal" on it because it has a wound on the bench seat corner where a branch fell on it. The sellers took it in for barter and never got around to using it. There is a very short video clip of a Mistral 16 -- two Canadian guys but they are really moving in a stiff breeze and so it's one of my Armchair Sailing Inspiration vids during the winter months. Oh, btw, I believe that I might have the rigging directions on one of my disks. I _thought_ mine was center sheeted.  

Hi boatshell I had the same problem with my spreaders. I don't know how bad yours is but mine was easily fixable with a fifteen dollar riveter from Lowes and some large aluminum rivets. It also took a small amount of hamering to get the spreader bracket back into the right shape. Best of luck. I love my boat, it is so much fun to sail. I agree about the google group. Although I did get a response from a bunch of folks there. I'd rather see that here on sail net. The interface is more user friendly and there is a much bigger pool of people to draw from. I asked the moderators to start a mistral only thread like they have for many other boats, but it never got done.  

Thanks, dklein90, for your response and input. I have photos but I am only recently (yesterday) a member, so don't know if I can post pics. As I recall, the pull out area on the mast was not huge, but there isn't a way to put that same size rivet into those holes again. I don't have much of an idea how much force or torque is involved, but I'd bet it is substantial. I don't think that I could safely try to patch the holes with Marine-Tex or something like that and re-drill. I don't know. It has been under tarp for a while while I tend to my other boats, sail, fix up house, garden, and cook my daily fix of Thai food. I do have one of those box store rivet guns and packs of rivets. But that rivet tool was not even strong enough to put in monel rivets on a Lido (Classic 14) mast, so I ended up using aluminum. I have "more than two" sailboats. I couldn't sail for a very long while, and when I was able to do so, I went a bit wild and "over bought." But I _need_ them and use them for different sailing situations -- solo, solo rigging, with husband, low wind pond, salt water bay with chop, wet boat for hot summer, dry butt boats for cold weather, .... No keel boats, mostly sailing dinghies and some board boats. If it sails well, I want to be on it. I have come across other Mistral 16 threads on various forums, and because I have "more than two" boats, I belong to a number of sailboat venues. But some of my boats are odd balls or I have questions that most members of sailboat forums don't seem able to address. Also, some of those forums focus on racing. A lot of my questions concern fixing up on a shoestring budget. I was reluctant to actually sign up and post to Sailnet after seeing so many big, gorgeous, nicely decked out sailboats. But seeing some small boat sailors here is inspiring. Heck, if I still lived in Maine on the salt water (I miss it so much), I'd have a keel boat (or two). As you note, there is a real breadth of experience here on Sailnet. Note to anyone with a Mistral 16 or thinking of buying one. Be sure you have that lid to the aft floatation compartment. I have mine, but the gasket probably wouldn't keep water out. I've read they are sometimes missing or fly off. Just a heads up.  

Hi Cheryl, We have a Mistral 16 and we have some some documentation obtained here from several kind Sailnet contributors, thanks to them) Let me kow you e-mail address because I tried to upload through Sail net, does'nt work. Daniel  

These boats were originally sold with an end sheeting arrangement. It was a bit of a pain if you had a small kicker installed the main sheet would get caught on it when tacking or jibing. I converted mine to a double block center sheeting arrangement and haven't looked back since.. Regards Peter  

Anybody been sailing their Mistral 16s lately?  

Hi Boz I was only wondering as I have not seen any posts for a while. I am planning to do some camping/sailing on Lake Champlain labor day weekend and maybe into Monday and Tuesday. Lots of shore/ island camping opportunities. I will post pics of the trip. Its the perfect dinghy for the job.  

Hi, Did you try to take a picture of the pdf spec. for mistral 16? gilod  

Yes I have the pdf specs. I'm not entirely sure where give me a couple of days to find them and respond to you.  

any chance you could email these out??  

Arcb

Not sure what specs you are looking for, but the Mistral 16 is more or less a Wayfarer clone. The overnighter version is more or less a Wayfarer hull with a cabin on it. There is lots of info online about Wayfarers, much of it should be close to Mistral 16 specs.  

thanks!  

looking for everything from rigging to specs to line!  

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Engineering:Mistral 16

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The Mistral 16 is a Canadian sailing dinghy that was designed as a daysailer and first built in 1980. [1]

The Mistral 16 is a development of the Ian Proctor designed 1959 Wayfarer dinghy and is similar to the CL 16 . [1]

  • 1 Production
  • 3 Operational history
  • 5 References
  • 6 External links

The design was built by Canadian Yacht Builders in Canada , starting in 1980, but it is now out of production. [1]

The Mistral 16 is a recreational dinghy , built predominantly of fibreglass. It has a fractional sloop rig, a spooned, slightly raked stem, a plumb transom , a transom-hung rudder controlled by a tiller and a folding centreboard . It displaces 365 lb (166 kg). [1]

The boat has a draft of 3.83 ft (1.17 m) with the centreboard extended and 8 in (20 cm) with it retracted, allowing beaching or ground transportation on a trailer . [1]

The boat may be optionally fitted with a small outboard motor for docking and manoeuvring. It was built as both an open boat and with a small cuddy cabin. [1]

Operational history

In a review Michael McGoldrick wrote, "the formula for this boat was simply to add a small cuddy cabin to the standard Mistral 16 open dinghy. Although the cabin seems to stick out a bit in the front of the boat, this formula has produced a good sailing vessel with a relatively roomy cabin for a 16 footer. While its cabin seems to offer a touch more space than other boats in this size range, it's still going to be a tight fit for anyone who plans to overnight inside this boat." [2]

  • List of sailing boat types

Related development

  • Wayfarer (dinghy)
  • ↑ 1.0 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5 McArthur, Bruce (2020). "Mistral 16 sailboat" . sailboatdata.com . https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/mistral-16 .  
  • ↑ McGoldrick, Michael (2020). "Mistral 16 cabin" . Sail Quest . http://sailquest.com/market/models/mistral.htm .  

External links

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Mistral 16

Microsoft made a $16M investment in Mistral AI

mistral 15 sailboat

Yesterday, Mistral AI , a Paris-based AI startup working on foundational models, announced a new large language model that could rival OpenAI’s GPT-4 , a chat assistant and a distribution partnership with Microsoft. But Microsoft and Mistral AI buried the news — or at least an important part.

As part of the partnership, Microsoft is investing €15 million ($16.3 million at today’s exchange rate) in the French startup. Mistral AI says that this an addition to the Series A funding round that was announced a couple of months ago — it could be considered as a Series A extension. It means that the valuation of Mistral AI isn’t changing following this investment.

Mistral AI reached a valuation of about $2 billion following its most recent funding round in December 2023. At the time, the company raised €385 million (around $415 million), with Andreessen Horowitz (a16z) leading the Series A investment round. The company had previously raised a $113 million seed round just a few weeks after its inception.

Microsoft says that this investment will officially convert into equity in Mistral’s next funding round. However, as Microsoft’s investment is based on the Series A valuation, it means that Microsoft will own less than 1% in equity in the French AI company.

Mistral AI releases new model to rival GPT-4 and its own chat assistant

Yesterday, Mistral AI unveiled Mistral Large , its flagship large language model that has been designed to rival other top-tier models, such as GPT-4 and Claude 2. Unlike previous Mistral AI releases, Mistral Large isn’t open source. Developers can access the model through Mistral’s own API platform.

Mistral AI and Microsoft also signed a distribution partnership deal for Azure. As a result, Mistral AI will likely attract more customers with this new distribution channel.

It also means that Azure customers can access Mistral’s models through Azure’s model catalog. Customers who want to remain in the Microsoft ecosystem have another option in addition to OpenAI’s models. Meta’s Llama models are also available on Azure.

With this investment, Microsoft is now an investor in OpenAI’s capped profit subsidiary and Mistral AI. Microsoft’s relationship with OpenAI is under scrutiny from EU and U.K. regulators.

This new investment has attracted the attention of the European Commission. A spokesperson told TechCrunch that the EC will analyze the investment deal between Microsoft and Mistral AI as part of its ongoing scrutiny procedure between large tech companies and generative AI companies.

That’s why Microsoft didn’t make a big deal about it. As for Mistral AI, the so-called European AI champion looks more and more like its American competitors with a closed source approach and a long list of American backers.

This article has been updated to include a statement from the European Commission.

Correction: Microsoft’s investment isn’t a convertible note. It is part of the Series A round, but it will be converted into equity at a later date.

Microsoft's deal with Mistral AI faces EU scrutiny

Illustration shows Microsoft logo

  • Critics push for Microsoft antitrust investigation
  • Tech giant's partnership with OpenAI already under scrutiny
  • Questions raised over Mistral's lobbying efforts

EUROPEAN CHAMPIONS?

Reporting by Martin Coulter and Foo Yun Chee; additional reporting by Krystal Hu in New York; Editing by Kirsten Donovan, Emelia Sithole-Matarise and Jonathan Oatis

Our Standards: The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles. , opens new tab

mistral 15 sailboat

Thomson Reuters

An agenda-setting and market-moving journalist, Foo Yun Chee is a 20-year veteran at Reuters. Her stories on high profile mergers have pushed up the European telecoms index, lifted companies' shares and helped investors decide on their move. Her knowledge and experience of European antitrust laws and developments helped her broke stories on Microsoft, Google, Amazon, numerous market-moving mergers and antitrust investigations. She has previously reported on Greek politics and companies, when Greece's entry into the eurozone meant it punched above its weight on the international stage, as well as Dutch corporate giants and the quirks of Dutch society and culture that never fail to charm readers.

ASML engineers walk past a High NA EUV tool at ASML’s headquarters in Veldhoven

House lawmaker says US ByteDance investors should urge China to allow TikTok sale

A U.S. House Republican leading a legislative push to force China's ByteDance to divest TikTok in the United States or face a ban says American investors should urge China to allow a sale.

Chinese gene firm BGI Group in Beijing

  • Breaking News

Boy, 15, dies in St. Petersburg boat crash

  • Jack Prator Times staff

A 15-year-old boy has died after a boat crash in St. Petersburg Sunday evening.

Collin Moorefield died from his injuries in a local hospital, the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission announced Monday afternoon.

Christian Tharakan, also 15, was driving the boat when he struck a dock. The collision ejected both boys from the boat, according to the state agency.

Tharakan’s injuries are not believed to be life-threatening, authorities said.

First responders received a 911 call at 5:43 p.m. that a boat struck a dock near 4039 Bayshore Blvd. NE. in Shore Acres, said Capt. Garth Swingle, a spokesperson for St. Petersburg Fire Rescue, in a news conference Sunday night.

Tharakan was recovered from the water first, before Moorefield was found soon after by a good Samaritan and a St. Petersburg police officer, authorities said.

“I can tell you that the neighbors came to help,” Swingle said Sunday. “It was pretty heartfelt that that was happening.”

After it struck the dock, the boat came to a stop four houses down, near another dock where a bystander turned off the motor and tied up the boat.

The front of the boat, an 18-foot Key West with a single motor, sustained minor to moderate damage, Swingle said.

It was unclear if the boys were wearing life vests at the time of the crash.

Florida law requires anyone born on or after Jan. 1, 1988, to complete a boating education course and have a boating education ID card before operating a vessel with a motor of 10 horsepower or more. It was unclear Monday if either of the boys had a card.

The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission is leading the investigation of the incident and said additional information will be limited until it concludes.

“We would like to express our condolences to the Moorefield family and ask that the public give the family space during this difficult time,” said Maj. Evan Laskowski, Southwest Regional Commander for the state wildlife agency, in a news release. “As a father myself, I can only begin to imagine the pain they are experiencing right now. I want them to know we are thinking and praying for them during this time.”

Two 15-year-old boys were ejected from their boat after it crashed into a dock on Bayshore Blvd NE in St. Pete's Shore Acres neighborhood. One teen was critically injured but alert, while the other was rescued from the water and is critical but unstable @BN9 pic.twitter.com/nWO3dDExpJ — Angie Angers (@angie_angers) March 4, 2024

Jack Prator is a reporter covering breaking news and environment. Reach him at [email protected].

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Microsoft’s new deal with France’s Mistral AI is under scrutiny from the European Union

ARCHIVO - El logotipo de Microsoft durante un evento en el centro de estudios Chatham House en Londres, el lunes 15 de enero de 2024. (AP Foto/Kin Cheung, Archivo)

ARCHIVO - El logotipo de Microsoft durante un evento en el centro de estudios Chatham House en Londres, el lunes 15 de enero de 2024. (AP Foto/Kin Cheung, Archivo)

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LONDON (AP) — The European Union is looking into Microsoft’s partnership with French startup Mistral AI as part of its broader review of the booming generative artificial intelligence sector to see if it raises any competition concerns.

The 27-nation bloc’s executive commission said Tuesday in a brief statement that it’s analyzing the agreement between the two companies announced a day earlier. Microsoft declined to comment. Mistral did not respond to a request for comment.

Microsoft said Monday it was teaming up with Mistral through a 15 million euro ($16 million) investment in the French company, which emerged less than a year ago. The agreement could cut the U.S. software giant’s reliance on ChatGPT-maker OpenAI for supplying the next wave of chatbots and other generative AI products.

The commission, the EU’s top antitrust enforcer, said it’s including the deal as part of its broader review of the generative AI market. It’s examining agreements between digital tech giants and generative AI developers and providers.

The EU last month started looking into Microsoft’s multibillion deal with San Francisco-based OpenAI, which could lead to a formal merger investigation.

mistral 15 sailboat

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WTSP-TV Tampa-St. Petersburg

15-year-old dies after boat crashes into dock in St. Pete

A 15-year-old boy is dead after a Sunday afternoon boat crash in St. Petersburg , the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission said in an update.

FWC officials, the Coast Guard and multiple local law enforcement agencies responded to reports of a boating accident around 4:30 p.m. in the area of Bayshore Boulevard and Connecticut Avenue.

Investigators determined that two 15-year-old boys were on board an 18-foot boat when it crashed into a dock, sending them both into the water.

The driver of the boat, Christian Tharakan, was quickly recovered from the water. Neighbors in the Shore Acres community tell 10 Tampa Bay the teen walked away with just scratches.

Along with first responders, those neighbors wasted no time in joining the search efforts for Tharakan's passenger, Collin Moorefield.

One neighbor got into his kayak to find Moorefield, eventually pulling the teen from the water with the help of a St. Petersburg Police officer. 

Both teens were transferred to a hospital where Moorefield died from his injuries. 

Alexis Carlon was sitting on her back porch with her 2-year-old daughter when she heard a crash. After the boat crashed into the dock, Carlon said it then was headed towards her. 

"I knew something was wrong when I saw the boat begin to make its way out into the bay unmanned," she described. "It then veered suddenly, as it was about to make impact and rain into our seawall instead of the dock. My husband jumped our fence and stopped the boat. He was able to pull the throttle down."

Carlon shared her well wishes with the families of both teens, as did many Shore Acres neighbors. 

“We would like to express our condolences to the Moorefield family and ask that the public give the family space during this difficult time," Major Evan Laskowski, the FWC's southwest regional commander, said in a statement. “As a father myself, I can only begin to imagine the pain they are experiencing right now. I want them to know we are thinking and praying for them during this time.”

The St. Petersburg Police Department is assisting the FWC in the ongoing investigation. 

15-year-old dies after boat crashes into dock in St. Pete

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COMMENTS

  1. Mistral 16

    Sails. Sailplan. fractional rigged sloop. Total sail area. 141.00 sq ft (13.099 m 2) [ edit on Wikidata] The Mistral 16 is a Canadian sailing dinghy that was designed as a daysailer and first built in 1980. [1] The Mistral 16 is a development of the Ian Proctor designed 1959 Wayfarer dinghy and is similar to the CL 16.

  2. THE BOATING REPORT; In the Real Storm, the Skipper, the Crew and the

    About midway through ''The Perfect Storm,'' the film adaptation of Sebastian Junger's phenomenal best-seller, the skipper of the 32-foot sailboat Mistral, sporting a jaunty yachtsman's cap and a ...

  3. MISTRAL 16

    It takes into consideration "reported" sail area, displacement and length at waterline. The higher the number the faster speed prediction for the boat. A cat with a number 0.6 is likely to sail 6kts in 10kts wind, a cat with a number of 0.7 is likely to sail at 7kts in 10kts wind. KSP = (Lwl*SA÷D)^0.5*0.5

  4. Mistral 16

    Mistral 16 is a 16′ 0″ / 4.9 m monohull sailboat built by Canadian Yacht Builders (CAN) starting in 1980. ... Sail area in square feet, derived by adding the mainsail area to 100% of the foretriangle area ... 1957 • 15 ′ 9 ″ / 4.8 m ...

  5. Mistral Sailboats

    Selling Boat and Trailer for $1,799. and harvested lots of applause! The Swiss company, Mistral, is well-known in Europe. In the eighties, Mistral was #1 in windsurfer competition. The Canadian branch of Mistral built a number of high quality sailboat models. Mistral still has subsidiaries around the world that make windsurfers, paddleboards ...

  6. Micro Cruiser Sailboat Review Mistral 16

    Wayfarer Dinghy clone with cabin for sleeping and swing keel. Camp Cruiser, Micro Cruiser, Trailer Sailer, Day Sailer.

  7. L F. Herreshoff MISTRAL

    Herreshoff "Mistral" Specifications. ... 54′ 9″ * Beam: 15′ 0″ * Draft: 6′ 3″ * Ballast: * Displacement: Sail Area: 1,972 * Design Number: 73 * Yard Number: * Hull material: Yellow pitch pine on oak ribs covered with 3 layers of sipo mahogany * Rig: Schooner * Designer: L.F. Herreshoff * Built by: Britt Brothers, West Lynn, MA ...

  8. Mistral 15

    Details. Welcome to your Gulf-front vacation at Mistral 15. These views speak for themselves! Perfect for a small family or a couple's romantic getaway, Mistral 15 is a 1-bedroom condo with hallway bunks and a sleeper sofa. Its cool blue palette is relaxing and modern. The main open living area is a great place to gather to watch TV or the Gulf!

  9. Boat: 1985 Mistral 15

    This Mistral 15 sailboat has a fiberglass hull and an LOA of 14.67 feet (length over all). The boat has a 50 inch beam. This sailboat is set up to sail as a Cat. The craft has 86 square feet of sail area. Displacement for the boat is 145 lbs. The draft of this sailboat is approximately 3'8". (For those brand new to sailing, draft is important ...

  10. Classic sailing yacht S/V MISTRAL

    Find out all of the information about the Legendary Yachts product: classic sailing yacht S/V MISTRAL. Contact a supplier or the parent company directly to get a quote or to find out a price or your closest point of sale. ... Specifications: LOD- 63'6" LOA- 75' LWL- 54'9" Beam- 15' Sail Area- 2200 sq ft Fuel- 400 gallons Water- 200 gallons Cold ...

  11. Reality Gets the Heave-Ho In Not-So-Perfect 'Storm'

    The Mistral in the film is a stand-in for the real-life Bermuda-bound boat, a 32-foot Westsail cutter named Satori owned by a highly experienced sailor named Ray Leonard.

  12. Mistral 16'

    5930 posts · Joined 2016. #23 · May 24, 2020. Not sure what specs you are looking for, but the Mistral 16 is more or less a Wayfarer clone. The overnighter version is more or less a Wayfarer hull with a cabin on it. There is lots of info online about Wayfarers, much of it should be close to Mistral 16 specs.

  13. Engineering:Mistral 16

    Sails. Sailplan. fractional rigged sloop. Total sail area. 141.00 sq ft (13.099 m 2) [ edit on Wikidata] The Mistral 16 is a Canadian sailing dinghy that was designed as a daysailer and first built in 1980. [1] The Mistral 16 is a development of the Ian Proctor designed 1959 Wayfarer dinghy and is similar to the CL 16.

  14. 1981 Mistral Sailboat Models by Year and Type

    Boat Part Manufacturers 1981 Mistral Sailboats 12 1981 Mistral Sailboats 15 1981 Mistral Sailboats 16 1981 Mistral Sailboats 16 Cabin 1981 Mistral Sailboats 16 Competition 1981 Mistral Sailboats 4.04 Competition 1981 Mistral Sailboats 4.04 School 1981 Mistral Sailboats 4.04 Standard 1981 Mistral Sailboats 4.7 1981 Mistral Sailboats Optimist

  15. Mistral 16 sailboat for sale

    Go to Sailing Texas classifieds for current sailboats for sale. 1982 Mistral 16. The Mistral 16 is a fast boat and handles very responsively. With an overall length of 15'10" and a beam of 6'1" the Mistral can sail fast when racing or slow when carrying the family. The boat and sails are in good condition and a Dilly trailer is included.

  16. Mistral sailboats for sale by owner.

    Mistral preowned sailboats for sale by owner. Mistral used sailboats for sale by owner. Home. Register & Post. View All Sailboats. Search. Avoid Fraud. ... 15.7' Cape Cod Shipbuilding Co Bullseye Cranberry Island Boatyard Cranberry Island, Maine Asking $8,500. 33' Tartan T10 Mystic, Connecticut

  17. 1985 Mistral Inc Sailboat Prices and Values

    1985 Mistral Inc Sailboat Prices and Values Select Mistral Inc Sailboats Models Below . A Quebec sailboat company, Mistral Incorporated built vessels suited for daily fun on the water. Fiberglass in construction, the products of Mistral Incorporated ranged between 8 and 21 feet in length. ... 15' SAIL FG 0 0 ...

  18. How to Rig Mistral 4.04 Sailboat

    Mistral 4.04 is a small sailboat of 13 feet. In this video, you will learn how to rig the stays and the sails. This is a great first boat to learn all the te...

  19. Boat: 1977 Mistral 15

    The 1977 Mistral 15 sailboat has a fiberglass hull and has an overall length of 14.67 feet (sometimes referred to as LOA). The width (or beam) of this craft is 50 inches. This boat is rigged as a Cat. The sail area for the sailboat is 86 square feet. The displacement for the boat is approximately 155 lbs.

  20. Preowned sailboats for sale under 15 feet

    35.5' Endeavour E35 Presently on the hard for winter storage at Morgans Marina, New Jersey Asking $35,000

  21. Microsoft made a $16M investment in Mistral AI

    As part of the partnership, Microsoft is investing €15 million […] Yesterday, Mistral AI, a Paris-based AI startup working on foundational models, announced a new large language model that ...

  22. Police identify 15-year-old boy killed in Florida boat crash

    A 15-year-old boy has died from injuries sustained during a boat crash on Sunday afternoon in St. Petersburg, Florida, according to Fox 13.. According to the Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission ...

  23. Microsoft's deal with Mistral AI faces EU scrutiny

    But lawmakers were taken by surprise on Monday, when Microsoft announced it had made a 15-million euro ($16 million) investment in Paris-based Mistral, and would soon make the company's AI models ...

  24. Boy, 15, dies in St. Petersburg boat crash

    A 15-year-old boy has died after a boat crash in St. Petersburg Sunday evening. Collin Moorefield died from his injuries in a local hospital, the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission ...

  25. Microsoft's new deal with France's Mistral AI is under scrutiny from

    Microsoft declined to comment. Mistral did not respond to a request for comment. Microsoft said Monday it was teaming up with Mistral through a 15 million euro ($16 million) investment in the French company, which emerged less than a year ago. The agreement could cut the U.S. software giant's reliance on ChatGPT-maker OpenAI for supplying the ...

  26. Microsoft's Mistral AI Investment to Be Examined by EU Watchdog

    Microsoft Corp.'s Mistral AI investment is set to be analyzed by the European Union's competition watchdog at the same time that its deep ties to OpenAI Inc come under regulatory scrutiny.

  27. SUPER MISTRAL SPORT (AMEL)

    It takes into consideration "reported" sail area, displacement and length at waterline. The higher the number the faster speed prediction for the boat. A cat with a number 0.6 is likely to sail 6kts in 10kts wind, a cat with a number of 0.7 is likely to sail at 7kts in 10kts wind. KSP = (Lwl*SA÷D)^0.5*0.5

  28. MISTRAL T-21

    Mistral Sailboats Inc. (CAN) KLSC Leaderboard. Sailboat Calculations Definitions S.A. / Displ.: 23.16: Bal. / Displ.: 28.52: Disp: / Len: 185.22: Comfort Ratio: 13.15: Capsize Screening Formula: 2.35: S#: ... Camden, Maine, 1997), states that a boat with a BN of less than 1.3 will be slow in light winds. A boat with a BN of 1.6 or greater is a ...

  29. 15-year-old dies after boat crashes into dock in St. Pete

    A 15-year-old boy is dead after a Sunday afternoon boat crash in St. Petersburg, the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission said in an update.. FWC officials, the Coast Guard and ...